Legislature(2009 - 2010)BELTZ 211

02/09/2009 01:30 PM Senate JUDICIARY


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01:30:48 PM Start
01:31:13 PM Confirmation Hearing
02:01:02 PM SJR3
02:20:56 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ Confirmation Hearing: TELECONFERENCED
Chief Administrative Law Judge
Terry Thurbon
*+ SJR 3 FIREARMS IN NATIONAL PARK TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
<Bill Hearing to Continue 02/11/09>
                SJR  3-FIREARMS IN NATIONAL PARK                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:01:02 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR FRENCH announced the consideration of SJR 3.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR THERRIAULT, Sponsor of SJR  3, stated that the resolution                                                               
supports  a Bush  administration  policy decision  and urges  the                                                               
Obama administration  to continue  and perhaps expand  support of                                                               
that policy. He continued:                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     It is the intent of SJR  3 to show appreciation for the                                                                    
     change  in National  Park policy  that now  allows park                                                                    
     users  to carry  the  firearms they  need for  personal                                                                    
     protection in National Parks.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Alaskans, who  have in their  state over 75  percent of                                                                    
     the National  Park system, understand how  important it                                                                    
     is  to  have  personal protection  in  the  wilderness.                                                                    
     Specifically  in   the  parks  in  Alaska   I  am  more                                                                    
     concerned  about protection  against the  wild critters                                                                    
     that  live there.  Whereas in  other  areas of  country                                                                    
     protection  of the  National Park  system  may be  from                                                                    
     other  people who  are  in the  park  system. The  bill                                                                    
     affirms  that  progress  has been  made  to  allow  the                                                                    
     carrying of firearms  under the previous administration                                                                    
     and encourages the new one to continue that.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Whether it's  for bear protection, obtaining  food in a                                                                    
     survival  situation, or  signaling for  assistance when                                                                    
     needed, firearms have been on  the hips and in the arms                                                                    
     of  many   Alaskans  since   the  frontier   was  first                                                                    
     explored. This  is just to  encourage that  the current                                                                    
     policy decision continues.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:03:02 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR FRENCH  observed that  his bill packet  has only  the first                                                               
page of  the "FAQ-Interior Firearms  Policy Update" and  the last                                                               
question  doesn't  have an  answer.  He  asked Mr.  Stancliff  to                                                               
answer the  question "Won't visitors  and wildlife  be endangered                                                               
by allowing concealed firearms in parks and refuges?"                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
DAVE STANCLIFF,  Staff to Senator  Therriault, replied  there are                                                               
varying  opinions  on whether  people  should  be able  to  carry                                                               
firearms  in  national  parks.  As  the  sponsor  indicated,  his                                                               
research  revealed some  tragedies that  probably would  not have                                                               
occurred  had  people  been able  to  defend  themselves  against                                                               
wildlife. He  also discovered that  the ten most  dangerous parks                                                               
are  on  the  list  because   of  dangers  associated  with  drug                                                               
trafficking and  assaults that  have happened.  So there  are two                                                               
groups  of people  wanting protection  for two  different reasons                                                               
and the policy is under legal challenge.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
The Brady  group filed  suit on December  30, 2008  after talking                                                               
with  the   new  Interior   Department  appointee.   Mr.  Salazar                                                               
expressed strong support for Second  Amendment rights and said he                                                               
is very  comfortable with  firearms in the  hands of  law abiding                                                               
citizens. He promised to look at  the procedure to ensure that it                                                               
is being followed correctly, but  gave no indication he would try                                                               
to  reverse  or politically  disrupt  the  decision. Because  the                                                               
Brady group has filed suit, the resolution is very timely.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.   STANCLIFF  described   "guns  in   national  parks"   as  a                                                               
philosophical  issue and  said  that the  pushback  in Alaska  is                                                               
significantly less than  in the Lower 48. He referred  to the two                                                               
young women  who were lost  in Denali  Park last summer  and said                                                               
they had no way of  signaling, protecting themselves or obtaining                                                               
food. "It's  a policy question,  but as  Alaskans I think  we can                                                               
see both sides of it fairly clearly," he concluded.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRENCH asked if any Alaska  parks are on the most dangerous                                                               
list.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. STANCLIFF  said no;  the ones that  are listed  are dangerous                                                               
because  of people.  The sponsor  brought to  his attention  that                                                               
some of  the most  dangerous law  enforcement assignments  are to                                                               
park rangers in national parks.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR THERRIAULT clarified  that the FAQ sheet  was included in                                                               
the  packet  to answer  specific  questions  about the  issue  of                                                               
"similar state lands."  He isn't sure what the answer  was to the                                                               
last question on the page.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  FRENCH said  it was  more  of a  rhetorical question  than                                                               
anything else, but  he would add that when he  visited the Brooks                                                               
Lodge at Katmai  he was stunned to learn that  you couldn't carry                                                               
a  firearm  to  protect  yourself against  bears.  After  several                                                               
visits he's changed his mind  and believes it's really quite safe                                                               
if you  obey certain  rules. Referring to  the Kenai  and Russian                                                               
rivers, he  said that Alaskans  really have figured how  and when                                                               
to use guns and when not to.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  STANCLIFF  said  it's  important to  note  that  the  policy                                                               
doesn't  apply  to national  parks  in  states that  don't  allow                                                               
individuals to  carry concealed firearms.  The rational  was that                                                               
the federal  government was looking carefully  at what individual                                                               
states wanted.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  FRENCH questioned  whether  states  could apply  different                                                               
rules to  different parks in  the same state. For  example, carve                                                               
out  one rule  for  the  Brooks Lodge  [Katmai]  and another  for                                                               
Denali  or Gates  of  the Arctic.  In some  places  you may  more                                                               
legitimately  need a  firearm to  defend yourself  or signal  for                                                               
help.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:11:05 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR ELTON  said his sense of  the purpose of a  resolution is                                                               
to  ask for  a change.  He questioned  sending a  resolution that                                                               
essentially says good job, keep it up.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  THERRIAULT  responded  there's  an effort  to  undo  the                                                               
federal regulation  and the resolution  basically puts  the State                                                               
of Alaska  on record saying  it supports the  Bush administration                                                               
policy decision and it conforms  to Alaska law. Responding to the                                                               
Chair's question, he  said the federal regulation  allows a state                                                               
to carve out  a particular park, just as  Alaska allows concealed                                                               
carry, but not  in a women's shelter or a  court building. "We're                                                               
basically  saying  we  support  the  step  that  was  taken  just                                                               
recently and  we're encouraging the new  administration to resist                                                               
the  attempts to  undo it.  And  to potentially  even consider  …                                                               
letting  people carry  openly  in the  parks  where states  allow                                                               
that."                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:14:11 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR ELTON suggested  that with the exception  of extending it                                                               
to  non-concealed, the  resolution  is superfluous.  He asked  if                                                               
it's permissible  now or if  it has  been permissible to  carry a                                                               
rifle in a national park.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.  STANCLIFF relayed  a personal  experience he  had in  Denali                                                               
Park. "The  answer is you cannot  be packing a rife  in sight. If                                                               
you have a firearm in a  park, they're going to probably make you                                                               
take the bolt out or break it down  and put it in a location away                                                               
from where  others will see  it and  maybe where you  could avail                                                               
yourself to using it."                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON recapped  that it's okay to have a  rifle in a park                                                               
so long as it's unloaded and the bolt has been removed.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  STANCLIFF  clarified  that he's  referring  to  parks  where                                                               
hunting isn't allowed, but he  doesn't know anyone who would take                                                               
their  rifle  or shotgun  into  a  park  for  fear of  having  it                                                               
confiscated.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON said so you can  only carry a concealed firearm and                                                               
that's probably not possible with a rifle.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. STANCLIFF agreed it would be very difficult.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:17:25 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR THERRIAULT  added that Alaskans are  generally supportive                                                               
of  the   change  the  federal   government  made  and   so  it's                                                               
appropriate for  the state government  to weigh in  and encourage                                                               
the new administration  not to undo it. Also, the  policy is very                                                               
similar  to what  the BLM  and the  U.S. Forest  Service have  on                                                               
carrying firearms.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON said he appreciates  the clarification and he would                                                               
just  note that  the U.S.  Forest Service  and BLM  allow hunting                                                               
while national parks do not.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:18:39 PM                                                                                                                    
SALLY GIBERT,  ANILCA Coordinator, Office of  Project Management,                                                               
Department of Natural Resources,  clarified that all the national                                                               
park  preserves and  all  the national  parks  that were  created                                                               
under  ANILCA are  open to  hunting. Therefore  they are  open to                                                               
carrying firearms. "This resolution as  well as the original Bush                                                               
administration regulations  only apply to the  pre-statehood pre-                                                               
ANILCA  parks, which  include  basically the  old  core of  Mount                                                               
McKinley National  Park, old  Glacier Bay,  old Katmai  and Sitka                                                               
and Klondike."                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRENCH said  so under the new regulations I  can take a gun                                                               
climbing and shoot avalanches.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. GIBERT said yes as long as they're concealed.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  FRENCH  asked  her  to  clarify that  the  state  or  park                                                               
director could carve  out a section of the river  near the Brooks                                                               
Lodge as a no gun zone.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. GIBERT said yes the federal government defers to the state;                                                                 
the park service can go along with whatever the state allows.                                                                   
The same with the McNeil River, she said.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:20:43 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR FRENCH announced he would hold the resolution until the                                                                   
next meeting [Wednesday].                                                                                                       

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